Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/29/2003 12:09 PM House EDU

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION                                                                            
                         April 29, 2003                                                                                         
                           12:09 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carl Gatto, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Vice Chair                                                                                          
Representative Dan Ogg                                                                                                          
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Kelly Wolf                                                                                                       
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 136                                                                                                              
"An Act  allowing persons to teach  in the public schools  for up                                                               
to five months  without a teaching certificate if  the person has                                                               
applied for a certificate and  the application has not been acted                                                               
upon by  the Department of  Education and Early  Development; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 136(EDU) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 136                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:TEACHER CERTIFICATION DEADLINE                                                                                      
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)GATTO                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/26/03     0307       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/26/03     0307       (H)        EDU, HES                                                                                     
04/17/03                (H)        EDU AT 6:00 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
04/17/03                (H)        -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                       
04/29/03                (H)        EDU AT 11:00 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN SWEENEY, Legislative Liaison                                                                                              
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Education and Early Development                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 136  and answered questions                                                               
from the members.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
PAULA HARRISON, Director                                                                                                        
Human and Resources and Labor Relations                                                                                         
Matanuska-Susitna Borough School District                                                                                       
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in  support of HB 136 and answered                                                               
questions from the members.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-22, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CARL GATTO called the  House Special Committee on Education                                                             
meeting to  order at 12:09  p.m.  Representatives  Gatto, Seaton,                                                               
Ogg,  Wolf,  and  Gara  were   present  at  the  call  to  order.                                                               
Representatives Wilson and Kapsner arrived  as the meeting was in                                                               
progress.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 136-TEACHER CERTIFICATION DEADLINE                                                                                         
Number 0056                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO announced  that the first order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 136,  "An Act  allowing persons  to teach  in the                                                               
public  schools  for  up  to   five  months  without  a  teaching                                                               
certificate if the  person has applied for a  certificate and the                                                               
application  has  not  been  acted  upon  by  the  Department  of                                                               
Education and  Early Development; and providing  for an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO,  sponsor of  HB 136, explained  that the  purpose of                                                               
this bill  is to provide an  extension from three months  to five                                                               
months for school  districts to allow individuals  to continue to                                                               
teach while they are awaiting  their security clearance.  He read                                                               
the  following statement  into the  record [original  punctuation                                                               
provided]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                               
     Currently,   teachers  who   are  waiting   to  receive                                                                    
     certification,  with all  of their  paperwork submitted                                                                    
     and  approved  in  Juneau  must  wait  until  they  are                                                                    
     cleared   through  a   fingerprint   check  for   final                                                                    
     certification.   During the process they  may teach for                                                                    
     up  to three  months.   Unfortunately, three  months is                                                                    
     very  rarely  enough  time   for  teachers  to  receive                                                                    
     fingerprints.    Often  sending  teachers  out  of  the                                                                    
     classroom  on  leave without  pay  is  the only  option                                                                    
     available  to a  school district  under statute  when a                                                                    
     teacher waits  more than three months  on fingerprints.                                                                    
     The Department  of Education has recently  attempted to                                                                    
     address   this    problem   by    issuing   conditional                                                                    
     certificates.        Adding   expense,    a    separate                                                                    
     certification,  and a  new  process  is less  efficient                                                                    
     than this proposal.  Extending  the amount of time that                                                                    
     a  teacher  can  be  in the  classroom  teaching  while                                                                    
     waiting  on  fingerprints  from three  months  to  five                                                                    
     months eliminates  the need for a  separate conditional                                                                    
     certification  and  resolves  the  problem  of  placing                                                                    
     teachers on leave without pay.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO announced  that he is handing the gavel  over to Vice                                                               
Chair Seaton,  since he  is the  sponsor of  the bill  before the                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0238                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  SEATON announced for  the record  that Representative                                                               
Wilson has joined the committee.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GATTO  told  the  committee   that  in  all  fairness  the                                                               
Anchorage School District  does not have a  position statement on                                                               
this  bill because  they have  not  had time  to investigate  the                                                               
issue.  The National Education  Association (NEA) has not taken a                                                               
position on  it.  However,  the Matanuska-Susitna  Borough School                                                               
District has  taken a  position on  it and  there was  someone on                                                               
line, but the connection was lost.   If that person comes back on                                                               
line, it  would be good if  he/she were given the  opportunity to                                                               
testify on the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0327                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN SWEENEY,  Legislative Liaison, Office of  the Commissioner,                                                               
Department of  Education and  Early Development  (EED), testified                                                               
on HB 136  and answered questions from the members.   He told the                                                               
committee  that  EED is  working  with  Chair Gatto  and  Senator                                                               
Therriault  on   the  issue   of  fingerprinting   and  obtaining                                                               
certification.   Rather  than putting  this legislation  forward,                                                               
the  department would  like  to  deal with  this  issue with  the                                                               
Department  of  Public  Safety (DPS)  and  those  processing  the                                                               
fingerprints.   He  believes that  it is  more beneficial  to see                                                               
that the  timeframe is shortened  so the districts never  have to                                                               
worry  about going  to  five-month options,  as  opposed to  just                                                               
admitting that there  is a problem and allowing  the timeframe to                                                               
get even longer, whereby there could  be a teacher in a classroom                                                               
without  having any  idea of  that  person's criminal  background                                                               
history.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWEENEY  said  he  knows   that  Chair  Gatto  supports  the                                                               
department's  efforts and  is  looking  for a  way  to solve  the                                                               
problem when there is a teacher  who must go on leave without pay                                                               
due to  nothing he/she has  done; it  is unfair.   The department                                                               
hopes  to come  up  with a  better  solution by  the  end of  the                                                               
session.  The EED is working with  the DPS.  In fact, he'd spoken                                                               
with  their administrative  services  manager today  and will  be                                                               
provided  with  a  lot  of  information so  the  problem  can  be                                                               
properly addressed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0462                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR SEATON said in the  sponsor statement it refers to the                                                               
department's  issuing conditional  permits  as a  way of  dealing                                                               
with this problem.  Is that currently the department's practice?                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWEENEY  replied that he is  unsure of that.   The process is                                                               
such that  teachers apply  for certification  and the  last thing                                                               
that  is  done is  the  fingerprinting.    Once a  teacher  gives                                                               
his/her fingerprints for analysis, the  teacher is given a three-                                                               
month temporary certification.   Probably what the department has                                                               
tried  to do  in certain  situations is  if in  three months  the                                                               
fingerprints are not back, the teacher is given another three-                                                                  
month temporary certification.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR SEATON  asked if there is any difference  in the level                                                               
of  security  that the  state  has  for a  teacher  who  is on  a                                                               
conditional permit and one that has  been given an extension.  He                                                               
said  since a  conditional  permit has  been  given, it  provides                                                               
districts  with a  comfort  level.   Does  an  extension to  that                                                               
permit change the district's comfort level with that individual?                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0641                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWEENEY  responded that  three  months  is tough  enough  to                                                               
swallow.   In  a  perfect  world the  background  check would  be                                                               
instant and  no one would  have to  worry about someone  being in                                                               
the  classroom  without  knowing,  as well  as  possible  with  a                                                               
fingerprints check, that the individual  does not have a criminal                                                               
background.  It is critical when  dealing with our children.  Mr.                                                               
Sweeney  said he  has discussed  this with  teacher certification                                                               
folks and  they have said that  the longer someone is  allowed in                                                               
the classroom,  especially sexual predators, the  more time these                                                               
individuals are  allowed to  groom their victim.   He  said going                                                               
from issuing a temporary certification  from three to five months                                                               
really scares the department.   Three months is really the lesser                                                               
of two evils.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0669                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PAULA HARRISON,  Director, Human  Resources and  Labor Relations,                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna Borough  School District, testified  in support                                                               
of HB  136 and answered questions  from the members.   The intent                                                               
in  going from  three  to five  months is  basically  due to  the                                                               
Department  of   Public  Safety's   inability  to   complete  the                                                               
background check  in a  timely manner.   The  conditional permits                                                               
that  are  being  issued  now  cost   a  lot  of  money  for  the                                                               
department, instead  of what was  previously issued, which  was a                                                               
yellow card  that meant  the teachers could  be in  the classroom                                                               
for 90 days.  She assured  the committee that the school district                                                               
does not  hire and place in  the classroom any teacher  that they                                                               
have  not  done a  thorough  background  investigation on.    Ms.                                                               
Harrison told  the committee that  the district  fingerprints all                                                               
the  teachers   in  the   district,  even   if  they   have  been                                                               
fingerprinted through  the certification process.   That is their                                                               
requirement  and  that of  many  other  school districts  in  the                                                               
state.   The  reality is,  the fingerprints  are not  coming back                                                               
timely, and there  is nothing the district can do.   What happens                                                               
is that  the district then  has to take  someone who has  been in                                                               
the class for 90 days and tell  them that person cannot be in the                                                               
classroom anymore.   Then the  district puts someone else  in the                                                               
classroom until his or her certificate actually comes through.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0788                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HARRISON said  she  is shocked  that the  EED  has come  out                                                               
against this bill.   She said she has been  one-on-one with every                                                               
certification  director   since  1997  about  the   problems  the                                                               
district has  in getting  fingerprints back  in a  timely manner.                                                               
It would be helpful to  have a conditional certification for five                                                               
months   because  all   the  districts   are   waiting  for   the                                                               
fingerprints to  come back.  She  said in the rural  districts it                                                               
does  not matter  when  the fingerprints  come  back because  the                                                               
teacher  will  remain  in  the  classroom  anyway.    The  larger                                                               
districts really try to comply with  the letter of the law and it                                                               
puts districts in  a difficult situation.  For  example, she said                                                               
that she has  a school psychologist whose  fingerprints have been                                                               
run seven  or eight times because  of her disability.   She knows                                                               
she is  never going to  get a  certificate, so Ms.  Harrison said                                                               
she has put  this woman in a different  retirement system because                                                               
the district needs a school psychologist.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0916                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HARRISON said  that she  strongly supports  this legislation                                                               
because it  is not  about sexual  predators, but  about districts                                                               
trying to  comply with the  law.   She assured the  committee the                                                               
district   is  thoroughly   checking  references   before  hiring                                                               
teachers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0940                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  asked where  in the  certification process                                                               
the fingerprinting takes place.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HARRISON  responded  that  fingerprinting  is  part  of  the                                                               
application  procedure  with  the   state.    No  application  is                                                               
accepted without everything  in the packet being  completed.  One                                                               
part of that  package is fingerprint cards.   When the department                                                               
issues  a card  saying  everything has  been  completed with  the                                                               
exception of  the fingerprint or criminal  background check, that                                                               
card allows  districts to go ahead  and hire an individual  to be                                                               
in the  classroom for 90 days.   Ms. Harrison told  the committee                                                               
if a  teacher were  to send in  an application  for certification                                                               
without  including  fingerprint  cards,  the  entire  application                                                               
would be returned to that person.   She said that when Matanuska-                                                               
Susitna  Borough  School  District  hires  a  teacher  applicant,                                                               
fingerprinting is the  very first thing the  district does before                                                               
that teacher is in the classroom.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  SEATON asked how  long it  takes for the  district to                                                               
get the results back.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. HARRISON  replied that they do  not have as much  time to get                                                               
them back as the department.  Sometimes  it can be as much as 120                                                               
days to get  a response from the Federal  Bureau of Investigation                                                               
(FBI).   When  the  district  calls with  concerns,  DPS is  very                                                               
responsive.  She  said that the district sends  their requests in                                                               
daily.  They  do not hold them  until there is a group.   The day                                                               
the district fingerprints the teacher  applicant is the day it is                                                               
sent to  DPS.  Maybe that  is the holdup in  certification in the                                                               
EED.   Perhaps  they wait  and  batch them  and send  them in  by                                                               
groups.    There  has  been  this  battle  since  1997,  and  the                                                               
districts cannot seem to get anywhere.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1126                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON said  that  she  can see  this  is a  real                                                               
problem for many  districts.  In talking with a  number of people                                                               
involved in  the schools,  she said she'd  found what  they would                                                               
prefer is that the processing  time for fingerprinting be speeded                                                               
up,  rather than  extending  the time  a teacher  can  be in  the                                                               
classroom  without having  a background  check completed.   Carol                                                               
Comeau of the  Anchorage School District and Mary  Francis of the                                                               
Association  of School  Administrators both  have concerns  about                                                               
this bill.   Representative Wilson said all it would  take is for                                                               
one  child to  be harmed  because the  legislature looked  at the                                                               
wrong end  in solving this  problem and  it would be  a disaster.                                                               
She asked  if anyone  from the  DPS is  available to  answer some                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1221                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWEENEY  told  the  committee  that  he  has  met  with  the                                                               
administrative services  manager of the Department  Public Safety                                                               
before coming to  the meeting.  She'd said she  would provide him                                                               
with statistics and information so  that the committee can digest                                                               
what  is  currently   happening.    He  was  told   that  DPS  is                                                               
transitioning from  a mix  of manual and  automated systems  to a                                                               
fully  automated  system and  they  are  expediting how  long  it                                                               
takes.  The FBI's response time  has improved because they are on                                                               
a  fully  automated system  now.    He was  told  if  there is  a                                                               
backlog,   it  is   mostly   a  workload   issue.     While   the                                                               
administrative services manager had  explained that they are much                                                               
faster than a couple of years  ago, she could not assure him that                                                               
fingerprint  checks would  be  done in  exactly  three months  or                                                               
exactly five months.   In most cases where it  takes an extremely                                                               
long period of time, it is  because they are dealing with someone                                                               
who has had  a record way back  in the past and they  have to dig                                                               
through records manually.   Mr. Sweeney said he  is hopeful there                                                               
will be more information soon, as  the manager is working on this                                                               
issue today.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWEENEY clarified  for the  record that  the EED  recognizes                                                               
that there  is a problem  here and  have been talking  with Chair                                                               
Gatto's office  about this.   He said the department  is fighting                                                               
this bill  because they want  to find the best  possible solution                                                               
instead of  taking just  this one solution  and running  with it.                                                               
Mr. Sweeney told the committee  he has committed to Chair Gatto's                                                               
and Senator  Therriault's offices to  work on a solution  to this                                                               
problem  that  the  department  believes  will  protect  children                                                               
better.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1358                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR SEATON  thanked  Ms. Sweeney  for  his comments,  but                                                               
reminded him that there are only  28 days left in the session and                                                               
that  raises  some  concern  for  a  speedy  resolution  to  this                                                               
problem.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO commented that if DPS  is able to speedup the process                                                               
for  getting  fingerprints  and background  checks  back  in  two                                                               
months,  then  nothing  in  this bill  would  hinder  the  school                                                               
district  in any  way because  they would  be ahead  of schedule.                                                               
The problem is  that is not happening.  He  pointed out that with                                                               
the enormous  amount of background  checks which are  done before                                                               
an  individual   is  hired,  if   fingerprints  did   not  exist,                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna   Borough  School   District  would   still  be                                                               
satisfied  that their  background checks  would be  sufficient to                                                               
protect the children in the classroom.   He asked Ms. Harrison if                                                               
since  1997 there  has ever  been a  fingerprint check  come back                                                               
that nullified the  background check the district had  done.  Has                                                               
any fingerprint  check ever shown  that the district had  made an                                                               
error in judgment?.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. HARRISON  said no,  that has never  happened since  she began                                                               
work there  in 1997.  In  that time, the district  has hired over                                                               
800 teachers and it has never happened, not even once.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1474                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  asked Ms. Harrison  why the  school district                                                               
does fingerprinting  on top of what  the state does.   Is there a                                                               
way to have only one entity do it so money could be saved?                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. HARRISON replied  that the school district requires  it.  The                                                               
prospective  teachers pay  for the  fingerprinting.   Everyone in                                                               
the   district  is   fingerprinted,   not   just  the   teachers.                                                               
Custodians,  secretaries,   classified  staff,   substitutes,  or                                                               
anyone that works in the school district must be fingerprinted.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  asked  if  there  are  benefits  of  double                                                               
fingerprinting.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. HARRISON  responded that she  does not know what  the benefit                                                               
is to doing  it or not.   She said the school  district gets back                                                               
absolutely everything  on an  individual.  She  is not  sure what                                                               
the  state  gets  back  because there  are  about  300  different                                                               
classes of fingerprints and what  information can be disseminated                                                               
and  to  whom.   Matanuska-Susitna  Borough  School District  was                                                               
fingerprinting long before the state required it.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  asked Mr.  Sweeney,  if  the districts  are                                                               
doing fingerprinting and doing it  faster than the state, whether                                                               
there is any way  to change the rule so the state  is not doing a                                                               
duplicate  fingerprint.   Could not  the department  piggyback on                                                               
what the school districts are doing?                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1583                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWEENEY responded that he really  does not know the answer to                                                               
that  question.     If  the   school  districts   are  submitting                                                               
fingerprints, it  is most likely  going to the  same organization                                                               
the department  is submitting them to.   He said he  does not see                                                               
the  results coming  any faster  from the  district than  when it                                                               
comes from the state.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA commented that  the legislature is being told                                                               
the state is  spending too much money.   The last time  he had to                                                               
get his fingerprints checked it was  expensive.  He said if there                                                               
are two  entities doing the check,  it makes sense that  only one                                                               
entity  should do  it.    He said  he  thinks  either the  school                                                               
districts should  refrain from  it or  the state  should refrain.                                                               
It is an economy that should be taken advantage of somewhere.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HARRISON interjected  that some  individuals get  a teaching                                                               
certificate and  may have it for  six years before they  are ever                                                               
hired.    One of  the  advantages  of  the district's  doing  the                                                               
fingerprinting  is  that  the  check  is  very  current  when  an                                                               
employee is hired versus someone  who was certified years before.                                                               
Another   point   is  that   some   teachers   have  never   been                                                               
fingerprinted because they were grandfathered into the system.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1680                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  SEATON said  that there  may be  a difference  in the                                                               
amount  of information  the state  releases to  a district.   The                                                               
district may  be looking for  additional information  beyond what                                                               
the state provides.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   WILSON  commented   that   her   husband  is   a                                                               
superintendent  of schools,  so she  has  seen what  he has  gone                                                               
through  when there  is  a  hiring process  going  on.   Not  all                                                               
schools  do fingerprinting  because they  know it  is being  done                                                               
through the Department  of Education and Early  Development.  She                                                               
said it is  wonderful that Ms. Harrison's district  is so precise                                                               
in  doing background  checks.    Representative Wilson  commented                                                               
that there have been plenty of  weekends that her husband has not                                                               
been  home  because  he  was   following  up  on  references  for                                                               
prospective employees.  He has  mentioned that not all schools go                                                               
through that rigorous  process that he does.   Unfortunately, the                                                               
reality is that  many schools are having such a  hard time hiring                                                               
teachers that  they are glad  to get  someone.  If  the committee                                                               
knew the scrutiny  given every teacher was  consistent, then this                                                               
bill would  not be a  concern.   However, there definitely  is no                                                               
consistency  in  hiring  practices,  so it  is  important  to  be                                                               
concerned about that.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1791                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR SEATON  mentioned Chair Gatto's point that  if the law                                                               
were changed to allow teachers to  remain in the classroom for up                                                               
to five months without a  teaching certificate and the process of                                                               
getting the fingerprints back was  speeded up, it would not leave                                                               
a teacher in  the classroom longer if the  fingerprints come back                                                               
in two or three months.   Unless the committee is looking at five                                                               
months,  the department  is  not  going to  try  to  push to  get                                                               
fingerprints back earlier and it  really will not have any effect                                                               
in the classroom without fingerprint  checks' coming back as fast                                                               
as they can.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SWEENEY  responded  that   the  director  of  administrative                                                               
services  in the  Department of  Public Safety  mentioned to  him                                                               
that the  fingerprints that  take the longest  amount of  time to                                                               
get back  are the  ones for  which they have  found some  sort of                                                               
criminal activity.   The criminal  activity was done a  long time                                                               
ago, so it  is necessary to go back through  the records manually                                                               
and  it takes  much more  time.   So if  that is  the case,  that                                                               
scares him,  he said.   For 99.5 percent  of the people,  the new                                                               
automated system  will be streamlined  and only take  two months,                                                               
but it is  the exception to that rule, the  one with the criminal                                                               
history, who would  be allowed to stay in the  classroom for five                                                               
months, if that is indeed the case.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  SEATON  noted for  the  record  that  Representative                                                               
Kapsner joined the committee sometime ago.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1918                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO  said this question is  directed to Mr. Sweeney.   He                                                               
used  the analogy  of  an  individual submitting  a  claim to  an                                                               
insurance company to pay a medical  bill.  The company has a time                                                               
limit.   If they do not  meet that time limit,  they are required                                                               
to  send a  letter advising  they  are late.   For  such a  small                                                               
percentage  of people,  it would  seem a  simple process  for the                                                               
districts to  be sent a  letter saying this  individual continues                                                               
to be under investigation.   This might be enough information for                                                               
the district to pull the person  out of the classroom, watch that                                                               
individual, or do  something.  It is the other  99.5 percent that                                                               
he is thinking about.  He  said he has watched Ms. Harrison work.                                                               
She has  a large district and  a desk full of  information and an                                                               
added responsibility for each of these new teachers.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO  said the legislature's  goal has been  to streamline                                                               
government.   There  has been  a small  percentage that  has been                                                               
missed.    How  about if  DPS  just  passes  on  a small  bit  of                                                               
information  that  says  the individual  continues  to  be  under                                                               
investigation?   Then the  district can take  action on  the very                                                               
small percentage of those people,  rather than continually trying                                                               
to  get  conditional permits  and  occupying  valuable time  that                                                               
could be  used for checking other  teachers for other things.   A                                                               
lot of  the education funding has  been taken away, and  yet they                                                               
are expected  to do more.   This bill is  a simple way  of saying                                                               
that although  the district is  not getting money, there  is some                                                               
relief.   Hopefully,  DPS could  send a  warning; even  if it  is                                                               
unmerited,  at  least  it  would   be  some  protection  for  the                                                               
district.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  SEATON commented that  it is clear the  department is                                                               
working  expeditiously with  DPS to  speed up  the fingerprinting                                                               
process, and with  current homeland security issues,  that is one                                                               
of the things that  will be worked on.  However,  there is a time                                                               
lag  here.    Would  a  two-year sunset  on  the  bill  give  the                                                               
department  enough time  to implement  the faster  fingerprinting                                                               
and  paper relief  for  the  districts for  now?    He asked  Mr.                                                               
Sweeney if he sees that as a mechanism that might work.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWEENEY replied that  he cannot speak to that now.   If it is                                                               
the will  of the committee to  move this bill forward,  he is not                                                               
here  to stop  that from  happening.   He said  he wants  to work                                                               
together to assure  everyone's concerns are met.  If  that is the                                                               
end product, it is something the  department would deal with.  He                                                               
said this is just the first  step for the bill and the discussion                                                               
between the  sponsor and the  department will continue.   He said                                                               
everyone has the same end goal  in mind and will work judiciously                                                               
to meet it.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2131                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR SEATON  asked Chair Gatto if a  sunset provision would                                                               
take away some  of the long-term worries that  the department has                                                               
and allow  time for  DPS to  upgrade their systems.   He  said he                                                               
believes  that   with  homeland   security  taking  on   so  much                                                               
importance, he  believes that  process will  be automated.   VICE                                                               
CHAIR SEATON  asked Chair Gatto if  he sees any harm  in the bill                                                               
sunsetting.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GATTO responded  that he  does not  see a  problem with  a                                                               
conceptual  amendment in  sunsetting  the bill  because he  would                                                               
like  to see  the bill  move through  the process  as quickly  as                                                               
possible.  He said he believes  there is enough support among the                                                               
districts for it.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  expressed her  concern with the  bill, but                                                               
said  she  would  be  willing  to vote  to  pass  the  bill  from                                                               
committee and  look at  it again in  the House  Health, Education                                                               
and Social  Services Standing  Committee.   Representative Wilson                                                               
told the committee  that she is concerned about  the safety issue                                                               
and wants to hear from other school districts.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF  told the committee  he has  serious concerns                                                               
with the  bill and cannot vote  to pass the bill  from committee.                                                               
He said  it takes  only one  day to sexually  molest a  child and                                                               
this bill is asking for an additional 60 days.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  said he  has a host  of concerns  about this                                                               
bill.   He asked Mr.  Sweeney if  the teachers are  being charged                                                               
for  the fingerprinting  for the  state  teaching certificate  as                                                               
well as the school district's fee for fingerprinting.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWEENEY  replied that  there are a  group of  fees associated                                                               
with obtaining a teacher's certificate.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    GARA    commented    that    the    state    is                                                               
undercompensating  teachers and  in  some cases  making them  pay                                                               
hundreds of dollars  for extra fingerprints that  are not needed.                                                               
He  asked the  committee if  it would  be possible  to insert  an                                                               
amendment in  the bill that would  say if a teacher  has paid for                                                               
fingerprints in one jurisdiction from  either the district or the                                                               
state  within the  last year,  then it  is not  required for  the                                                               
other.   This seems like  an incredible  burden on teachers.   He                                                               
asked Chair  Gatto and Mr. Sweeney  if they see any  problem with                                                               
this kind of amendment.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2289                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR SEATON  asked for  clarification on  what information                                                               
each  entity   doing  the   fingerprinting  transmits   to  other                                                               
entities.   He  said the  fingerprinting  is done  for a  certain                                                               
reason  at one  agency.    But is  the  legislature telling  that                                                               
agency  not only  to  certify  that they  did  not find  anything                                                               
within their  provisions, but also  to share all  the information                                                               
obtained from the background check?                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA commented  that  the  most efficient  system                                                               
would  be to  appoint  one  agency to  be  responsible to  gather                                                               
fingerprints.  The backup would  be that if the district requires                                                               
information, the  legislature could require that  the state share                                                               
the information.   Ideally, the  state's background  check should                                                               
be good enough that the school  districts do not require the same                                                               
background check  and teachers  are not  required to  spend money                                                               
for additional fingerprinting.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2351                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GATTO responded  that  this is  really  straying from  the                                                               
purpose of the  bill, but whatever the legislature  says or does,                                                               
the Matanuska-Susitna Borough School  District will require fresh                                                               
fingerprinting  for  every fresh  applicant.    He asked  if  Ms.                                                               
Harrison would confirm that this is correct.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HARRISON replied that is correct.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO went  on to tell the committee that  the liability is                                                               
too  great to  permit that.    He said  that Representative  Wolf                                                               
addressed that  issue in his comment  that it only takes  one day                                                               
to sexually  assault a child.   Matanuska-Susitna  Borough School                                                               
District  will continue  to do  background checks,  and the  cost                                                               
will be charged to  the applicant.  He does not see  a way out of                                                               
this.  Chair  Gatto said that he knows there  are small districts                                                               
out there  with one teacher  and they  are almost scared  to lose                                                               
this  teacher after  three months  and  be forced  to remove  the                                                               
teacher from the  classroom; so these districts  will just choose                                                               
to violate  the law and  allow the teacher to  continue teaching,                                                               
knowing that  the district  has already  done a  very significant                                                               
background check.  He summarized  his comments by reiterating Ms.                                                               
Harrison's statement that in all  the years they have been hiring                                                               
teachers,  not even  one time  has there  been a  problem.   This                                                               
legislation satisfies the needs of the districts, he suggested.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2429                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR SEATON  ruled  that  Representative Gara's  suggested                                                               
amendment is  outside the scope  of the  title of the  bill being                                                               
considered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  commented  that  in  one  of  the  school                                                               
districts she  represents, someone  failed the  background check,                                                               
so it is not necessarily 100 percent.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GATTO asked  if  the  person's record  was  missed in  the                                                               
background  check,  but  was  discovered  in  the  fingerprinting                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  responded  that  she does  not  know  the                                                               
details behind the discovery.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA   commented,  in  response  to   Vice  Chair                                                               
Seaton's  ruling against  a possible  amendment,  that while  the                                                               
amendment may not  fit in the purview of the  bill, it fits right                                                               
in  the statutory  provision  and the  committee  can expand  the                                                               
title if necessary.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  SEATON  responded  that  he  does  not  believe  the                                                               
legislature  should be  in the  position of  regulating a  school                                                               
district, the  state, and the FBI.   The purview of  this bill is                                                               
just talking about five months  of teaching until the person gets                                                               
a  certificate  back,  not  what   the  school  districts  do  to                                                               
accommodate their liability requirements.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA asked Ms. Harrison  if it makes sense to have                                                               
one centralized fingerprinting system for  new hires.  He said he                                                               
would like  her to consider this  idea for another day.   He also                                                               
asked if  the Matanuska-Susitna Borough School  District is doing                                                               
a  more detailed  background check  with their  fingerprints than                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.   HARRISON  responded   that   Alaska   law  determines   the                                                               
information provided  to the districts  based on  the fingerprint                                                               
check.   The law also says  what the Department of  Education and                                                               
Early  Development can  get back.   She  told the  committee that                                                               
information is  not the  same.  Some  small agencies  like "Child                                                               
Find" do not  get as much information as a  school district does.                                                               
Districts get everything.  She said  she is not clear on what the                                                               
state  gets   back,  but  that   she  is  sure  there   are  some                                                               
restrictions on what they get back.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2563                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  told  the  committee  he  would  leave  the                                                               
centralized  fingerprinting system  issue  to the  administration                                                               
and ask them to look into this as an efficiency measure.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GATTO commented  that Representative  Gara's  choice is  a                                                               
wise one,  since the Alaska constitution  requires single-subject                                                               
bills.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWEENEY said that the  administration has made their position                                                               
known on this  bill.  He believes Chair Gatto  will work with the                                                               
Department of Education and Early Development on this issue.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2602                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  SEATON asked  Chair  Gatto  if  he would  support  a                                                               
conceptual amendment to insert a two-year sunset on this bill.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO  responded that while he  does not prefer it,  in the                                                               
interest of moving the bill forward  he will accept it.  He asked                                                               
Ms. Harrison if she sees a problem with a sunset provision.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HARRISON  replied that she  does not  see a problem  with the                                                               
sunset  provision  and   believes  this  may  help   to  get  the                                                               
fingerprints and background checks back more quickly.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO  stated that he  would accept a  conceptual amendment                                                               
for a two-year sunset on the bill.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA asked  about  possible  inefficiency at  the                                                               
Department  of  Education  and Early  Development  (EED)  or  the                                                               
Department of Public  Safety.  He asked if this  is an example of                                                               
where the administration has cut staffing  back too much.  If the                                                               
school districts  are having less difficulty  getting information                                                               
back from the  Department of Public Safety than the  EED, then it                                                               
suggests that there is inefficiency within  the EED.  Is that the                                                               
case?                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWEENEY responded that  he is not sure that is  the case.  It                                                               
might be a question for Ms.  Harrison.  Does the district get the                                                               
fingerprint background check more quickely than the department?                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2705                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HARRISON told the committee  she has the greatest respect for                                                               
EED  and the  certification analysts.   She  said they  work very                                                               
hard, but are self-funded.  They  can only afford to hire as many                                                               
people as  the funds they bring  in support.  The  question would                                                               
be how  often they send the  fingerprint cards in.   The district                                                               
sends  the  cards  in  on  a   daily  basis.    If  the  district                                                               
fingerprints one person  today, that fingerprint card  is sent in                                                               
the mail  with a check  to the Department  of Public Safety.   If                                                               
the department  is batching  them or only  sending them  once per                                                               
week or once every two weeks, that  could be a problem.  She said                                                               
her district  is getting the  information back more  quickly than                                                               
the EED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SWEENEY commented that is something he will look into.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA   pointed  out   if  either   department  is                                                               
understaffed,  then   the  legislature   needs  to  know.     The                                                               
legislature is in support of  making efficiencies, but not at the                                                               
expense of  causing a  public danger.   He said  he will  wait to                                                               
hear from the EED.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2766                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO moved to report  CSHB 136 with a conceptual amendment                                                               
of   a  two-year   sunset  out   of  committee   with  individual                                                               
recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal notes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF objected to the motion.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR SEATON stated for  the record that while the committee                                                               
does  not  have the  fiscal  note  before  them, they  have  been                                                               
advised that it is a zero fiscal note.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
A roll call  vote was taken.  Representatives  Seaton, Gara, Ogg,                                                               
Wilson,  and Gatto  voted in  favor  of reporting  CSHB 136  from                                                               
committee.   Representative  Wolf voted  against it.   Therefore,                                                               
CSHB 136(EDU) was reported out  of the House Special Committee on                                                               
Education by a vote of 5-1.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  stated for the  record that she  is voting                                                               
to move  the bill to the  next committee of referral  and intends                                                               
on getting more answers to questions on the bill.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF  commented that this bill  is playing Russian                                                               
roulette with  our kids.   It  is inappropriate  to put  a sexual                                                               
predator in our schools for even one day.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Special Committee on Education meeting was adjourned at 12:53                                                                   
p.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

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